Simplex 5 speed build

[ndian22]

Hey Rick, I ordered chromed steel as I'd read the Coker was a tight fit with the aluminum Worksman. The Vee NOLA was a very snug fit on the Sta-tru steel wheel which isn't nearly as heavy duty as the Worksman. Seem's Pat D. @ Sportsman has mounted the Coker's on the Worksman aluminum and it wasn't a one man job or something done on the apron, real fight to the death. I read it somewhere; anyway I do know Pat uses the aluminum often. I like steel for classic but seen powder coated aluminum that was lethal.

Spot on with the vintage tread. They're giving away a huge market in the board track/ vintage motorized bicycle market & I've discussed it with them as has Eitek1, who lives in area...trying to encourage them. Coker can't impact the moto bicycle world but a shipped price under $70. ea. would sell well to that lot with proper period styling & a bit of promotion. I'll continue dialog with them & encourage others to do the same.

After mounting and testing, Bob's your uncle, I'm convinced it's a motorcycle tire disguised as bicycle rubber & my hub and wheels are now the weak link. I'm truly not interested in how fast but how safe & I really like large margins of performance not normally used though readily available.  Still inquireing & fine tuning. Rick C

[Ricks]

Yeah, I read about Pat's struggle getting them on the alloy rims, that is why I asked.  

I am not a big fan of disc brakes on the early period type of motorbike builds, but I see why people do it from a safety standpoint.  Simplex front brakes are really weak, but I like the look, so I try to use them if I can find them.  I wonder if the Harley Hummer, or other such era bikes, had brakes that worked better?  I would like to try one, to see if it made a difference.  I believe they are 36 spoke, same a a simplex, so it would be simple to lace one into a simplex or worksman rim.

[ndian22]

Rick that Hummer brake is quite good looking, doesn't visually "overpower" the front of the bike, can't speak to the stopping power though. I do recall the brakes in general of that period were good for 2 or three good "pulls" in agressive mountain riding & then not much left. Simplex front's are attractive, but I gather hard to come by, which is a shame. I recall the small Italian bikes of the '60s (Ducati perhaps) had a great looking little brake, built with watch like precision, but don't remember if they were 36 or not. The Brit, Ludwig, on MB forum is a wealth of euro bike trivia; he'd at least point a guy in the direction of more source material. Actually the S-Archer is a nice looking item, though you'd have to judge if it was close to the Simplex in stopping power.

I'm not fond of the "disc" look either, but love to use the heck out of them. Back in 1967 I was allowed to test drive a Shelby 427 "side-oiler" Cobra (HP undisclosed but know to be unlimited) & a 427 435 hp (HP under rated but limited) Covette stingray coupe in the same week. I'd come into some bonus money and decided to blow it on a new set of wheels....your only young once. Both 4 wheel independent and with all disc brakes.
The most impressive thing on both cars were the brakes. I've been sold ever since.  Rick C.

[ndian22]

Rick If you check my board track thread on MB (last page) some info from Ludwig on a 36 hole moped Atom/Motobecane brake with good photos, description & input. Lace up to as large as 8 gauge spokes. Also a few other directions one might take. Rick C.

[Ricks]

Rick If you check my board track thread on MB (last page) some info from Ludwig on a 36 hole moped Atom/Motobecane brake with good photos, description & input. Lace up to as large as 8 gauge spokes. Also a few other directions one might take. Rick C.

Rick, I read through that.  Good info there.  Thanks!

[ndian22]

Hey Rick you might check back into the thread later tonight or tomorrow 'cause good stuff is still coming in, after that I'll give you a heads up on interesting material. I've already scoped out a couple of items & great info for myself from Myron's. RC

[ndian22]

Hard to believe that almost 3 months have past by since I took the "Copper Gator" out for the first ride. 3 oil changes later & I'm calling her officially broken in. I'm quite pleased with the results to this point and don't hesitate to select her for my daily rides. To this point I've had no issues with her save the expected "should have used lock tite" moments, but even those ended weeks ago. I'm still waiting on NOLA to get a shipment of 2.5" Kevlar Vee's back in stock as I've started a Harley Davidson 1920'ish theme bike build using a Sportsman Flyer Loop frame coupled to a Simplex springer fork & another Honda (style) CG 125 cc 5 speed engine. So I'll order a pair of NOLA's for that build as well. 

Great riding this Spring as we've had lots of rain and the countryside is quite beautiful. Rick C.

[Ricks]

Hi Rick, I've been following along over on the other forum.  Your H-D project is going to be really nice!  I think you should convert the Simplex springer on it to internal springs, that would really look H-D.

[ndian22]

Thanks Rick for posting the two photos. The board track style bike with key points highlighted is close to where I'm heading. Not trying to duplicate exactly a specific machine or year, but representing an era between 1910 & 1930. The simplex forks look remarkably similar to the base Harley design, but as you noted the small diameter springs were usually (but not always) enclosed in a tube with a slot on the inside to expose a section of the spring. This tube was topped with a brass cap. I intend to modify the Simplex design by adding a tube (copper,brass cap perhaps) and I also plan on re-enforcement of the large legs with a decorative, yet functional, angled "girder" as was used on many non-springer HD forks (especially racers) and some racing springer forks as well. I treasure the Simplex cast fork, leg rockers. They are cleaning up very well and will really stand out in a bicycle world of flat plate rockers/toggles. I'll be using a small brake drum 36 hole hub laced to a Worksman rim with 10 gauge stainless spokes. I'll be using Pat's flat tank Harley for fuel and his HD board track bars as well. Bars will be mounted to the steerer head plate with aluminum 2 inch risers   clamped with "half moons".

I had planned the modifications for use on the "Copper Gator" bike but got so far along in the build with the Sunlite springers that I just couldn't visualize the change of forks.  Should be fun, parts still coming in with more on order. I think my saddle builder will again be Rich Phillips out of Missouri. He has built my last two small "bobber" saddles and the quality is first rate. They aren't copies of the Messinger (which I like) built saddles, but they have a board track look and feel about them & I've never seen a motorized bike, with the exception of my own, that featured his work. Unique in a me too world... so sue me. Lol

If deemed appropriate I'll post a few photos along in this thread. Pm me if that's not a good idea. V twin is kinda on hold due to lack of design inspiration...I'll lock on to the engine /frame combination eventually and that will prompt a design and theme to build on &still haven't ruled out another Simplex frame build. Hasn't happened yet, whereas the Harley/ "loopframe" just popped into mind one evening during a discussion of early cycle sidecar combinations...go figure!

                                                                  Rick C.

[Ricks]

Feel free to post your new build here!  Everyone likes to see something different.  As far as I'm concerned, if you are using a Simplex fork, it is part Simplex!  lol

[ndian22]

Thanks Rick, actually the fork weighs more than the Simplex neck, spring and drops, which were the sum total of Simplex parts utilized in the Copper Gator build. I'll update from time to time on the HD project. I wouldn't have started the new build if it wasn't for the forks. I tried to hide them but they wouldn't leave me alone kinda like the demented Mopar Christine in the Stephen King novel.   Rick C.

[ndian22]

This is the start of my kinda like a Harley board track racer build. Frame is a steel Sportsman Flyer classic loop style frame, beautiful vintage lug and brazed connection fabrication using DOM tube. There will be some major changes made in the down tube & loop section of the frame to  allow the CG 125 5 speed engine to fit lower & forward in the frame. This is the same modification that Harley came up with for both their board track and dirt track racers & dubbed the "Keystone" frame. Indian followed suit shortly thereafter with the same mod to their loop frame racers and it's referred to as the "Marion" frame.

Harley racers & fans referred to the single cylinder racers as "peashooters". Some of the big V-twins were modified as well into single cylinder racers by removing the back jug and blocking the hole in the case. This was done to comply with class displacement rule changes. These were nicknamed half Harley's. With the integrated 5 speed case I think the CG 125 looks a bit like the big case half Harley's.

Harley also used a small dual spring fork for over a decade which the Simplex fork bears an uncanny resemblance to. I'm using one on this build. I'll post progress from time to time.   Rick C.

[ndian22]

Posting on another forum and realized I'd neglected to ask you guys who are the Simplex experts, a very important and fundamental question about the Simplex design fork I'm using on my Peashooter Harley build. How well does fork work on the stock Servi-cycle bikes or trucks or on builds utilizing retrofit engines with more weight and power & at higher speeds.

Detailed input is welcomed... pro or con & will help determine the extent that I'll need to go with any modifications such as damping rebound etc. I'm really more than a bit embarrassed about not asking this question sooner... a real rookie error, perhaps just an old guy's arrogance or some of both! I truly appreciate the forums individual and collective experience.

                                             Rick C. 

[Ricks]

Simplex springers ride smooth.  The only thing to remember is they are a leading axle design.  What this means in the real world, when you brake, the front end rises.  This is a weird feeling, and takes some getting used to. 

Simplex did everything on the cheap to keep cost as low as possible.  There are no bushings on the top of the moving fork, they are a sloppy fit in the top plate.  This would be easy to drill out, add bronze bushings and polish the shafts.

To take it a step further, you could extend the rigid fork higher, add rebound springs on top and thread nuts on top.  I think this would help with rebound control.

[pd]

I'll second the 'smooth ride' .

But , I think the front end rising happens when the front wheel has brakes , as I've never noticed it on my rear wheel only braking .

I see Rick C has the same fork as my '57 which has nuts at the top of the spring fork and the fork springer washer ( # 323 : M manual ) which does take up some of the slop in the top plate .

Pete .