Author Topic: Simplex 5 speed build  (Read 164890 times)

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #285 on: May 20, 2016, 01:37:29 PM »
Yes Rick I have & also the equally impressive www. comebackmotors.com in Argentina for their complete 1917 Indian board track Power stroke V-twin complete replica bike and engine.

Looks like he uses some re-purposed Harley after market parts but the flywheels & rotation assy. are purpose built...with a lot of case machining, nice castings it appears & aftermarket flat heads & he's right the cases are well designed to "unit frame" the motor in a Keystone or just drop into a loop frame.

I sent Pat a P.M. & encouraged him to set up a dialogue to market a complete a Peashooter bike with or without engine installed as he has all the pieces: frame, forks, keystone mount, handle bars & Messinger board track saddle in his parts inventory. Just needs to add the vintage engine and the rounded mid twenties thru thirties Harley fuel tank. He also has the brand image and reputation that puts him years ahead of FFV8 in closing deals with established high end clients.

The big unknowns are FFV8's quality & the ability to produce the first engine runs, perhaps the first 8 to 12 engines in a timely fashion while maintaining high quality. Adequate financing of course is key to surviving the production and testing phase as well.

It would be wonderful to see it come about of course. I sold my manufacturing company in 1990 to a large multi-national group & retired. I was 44 at the time. I've just dabbled in stuff since, but I remember the excitement of introducing complex new products & the complications as well...good times, but I like now the best!  Rick C. 

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #286 on: May 27, 2016, 06:40:26 AM »
Pete, top of the Simplex "tree plate" paper template cut & mocked up with surplus bars and "half moon" bar risers. I'll cut some metal today.  Rick C.

pd

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #287 on: May 27, 2016, 11:55:42 AM »
That's pretty much how I envisioned the plate , from your previous description .

Hopefully , with your enhancements , the stem will stay true . ;)

And , I'm envious ... your shop , it's like someones living quarters .  ::)

Pete . :)
Goes around , Comes around . :)

Ricks

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #288 on: May 27, 2016, 12:26:53 PM »
I'm having a hard time seeing it, but is your new plate going to go over the stem?  If not, how are you going to stabilize it?
Rick

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #289 on: May 27, 2016, 05:18:07 PM »
Hi guys, yes my home "office" often doubles as my shop during the early stage of gathering parts and modeling clean stuff the other shops not so much. I actually just like having them in front of me & available at odd times (which are often when I'm concerned).

Rick the frames neck tube houses the fork steering tube and two bearing races upper & lower are pressed into the neck tube and comprise one half of the upper and lower bearing headset support, the remaining bearing support is provided by the "crown race" (lower support) & the upper by the "headset" nut or cap. The steering tube is welded to the crown support plate which supplies the only support for the steering tube of the fork assembly in most modern fork designs for bicycles. You are probably saying "ah ha" at this moment because the Simplex design is motorcycle & you're right. I'm using a Simplex triple tree design on a 1910's design motor bicycle frame not a heavy modern motorcycle. The top plate can be used for a lot of things requiring support, but my main concern is just to attach the steering. The fork plate does not support the neck head tube, the frame does that, nor is it necessary for the support of the headset bearing or the internal steering tube as the two bearing races of the headset assembly complete that task. Two critical elements are required to make this Simplex fork work on this Sportsman Flyer frame the first being the original Simplex threaded headset nut bearing race, which being a stepped design allowed me to thread it on enough (3/8" perhaps) to hold the 1" threaded steering tube centered and secure all the headset parts and of course the fork. If the original fork tube had been cut about an inch longer I could have mounted the fork like any other threaded headset assembly, but wasn't the case. The second necessary component was the "star nut" bolt and cap assembly which is used on thread less fork steering systems. As I earlier described it I'll only add photos. The design of the star nut cap is really important too as is correct installation of this innovative fastener assembly which not only centers, & secures but also compresses the bearing sets correctly .

I used it as a measure of safety only as it performs the same functions as the threaded system only from an inside the tube design rather than external threads on the outside of the steering tube. That small bolt will hold a set of mountain bike forks on through a fifty foot free fall without failing...repeatedly.

Both the threaded & thread less fork design elements were used together, just in case. I also discussed beefing up the weld at the crown plate in a previous post...which probably isn't necessary, but just in case. Hope this helps though I doubt this problem occurs frequently lol.  Rick C.
     

 

Ricks

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #290 on: May 27, 2016, 05:47:50 PM »
OK Rick, now I see how it works.  I'm just not sure how comfortable I would be as the simplex lower stem support doesn't look that robust to me.  On the forks Pat builds, the stem is welded to another piece of tube, and I would even guess it is inserted into the tube and welded on both sides, not on a flat plate as on a Simplex.  I know how safety conscious you are, so I'm sure you have thought of a good solution for this already!

I am really enjoying watching your builds come together!  Thanks for posting them here.
Rick

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #291 on: May 27, 2016, 09:02:13 PM »
Hi Rick & thanks for following my builds. Pat's fork is really nice & competitively priced with other after market vintage style motorcycle forks that are usually not as well engineered as his. He incorporates several advanced features that were around back in the twenties and thirties, but not in Simplex's price range. It's a nice early fork design that Simplex came up with, at a cost point they could sell in their market niche.

If you will check my post 282, 2nd. paragraph I shared my thoughts on beefing up the Simplex crown fork plate with an additional plate & steering tube/ liner tube addition welded to that additional plate, running leg to leg & extended 2/3 rds. of the way up through the Simplex steer tube. Just as insurance against that single weld breaking as it is the critical connection on the fork and at the weakest point of most fork designs.

One reason for adding an enforced plate & tube at this point is the 60 year old metal of unknown quality in the steering tube & the filler used in the original weld connection. Just insurance.

You noted in an earlier post that .063 was the wall thickness used by the factory for frame material in & that's pretty thin wall even using modern alloy DOM 1" tube in the general frame sections. Pat uses .090" in his pedal bikes & .120" in the larger Sportsman 200 and Bonneville motorcycles. .080 is fine with DOM tube of good alloy in a light street bike carrying light loads or heavier with well designed frame bracing.

Pat's connections are lug design and brazed on all his frames so I have no worries about the "head" tube breaking off, just that one vital connection at the crown plate  is a concern.

As you guys know good design is just as important an aspect of building as quality materials and solid fabrication techniques & execution. No free lunches!

Rick C.

Ricks

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #292 on: May 28, 2016, 04:42:14 AM »
Got it Rick. I went back and read it again, I don't know how I missed it the first time around.  That sounds like a solid solution to me.
Rick

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #293 on: May 28, 2016, 09:47:01 AM »
Rick I often include too much in my posts & therefore communicate less to the reader than intended. Good photos help, alas my photo journalism sucks. Thanks for sticking with the details till it's somewhat understandable.

Took some parts to the real shop (not my living quarters shop. Pete) this morning & the guys must have been at it all night as it looked like a CAT powered Peterbilt had exploded leaving bits and pieces everywhere. I dropped off the parts & rapidly departed the scene of carnage much preferring bicycles in my home office to diesels on any Saturday, but appreciate the guys dedication to work on such a beautiful day.

Rick C.

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #294 on: May 28, 2016, 01:41:51 PM »
Cut the fork top plate from 1/4" aluminum. Changed the template to add some curves & just set the bars & risers on the plate for the photo. 

Rick C.

pd

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #295 on: May 28, 2016, 02:46:23 PM »
Nice design .

Pete . :)
Goes around , Comes around . :)

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #296 on: May 30, 2016, 12:09:51 PM »
Thanks Pete. Simplex fork modeled with zip ties and duck tape...not for use on any road or highway! Rick C.

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #297 on: May 30, 2016, 12:31:50 PM »
I actually think adding girders (truss) has some merit. The apex of the girders would be attached by a rod welded to the bottom of the middle fork plate. I'll play with this awhile before deciding.  RC

pd

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #298 on: May 30, 2016, 12:39:00 PM »
Brush guards ??? ;)

Pete . :)
Goes around , Comes around . :)

ndian22

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Re: Simplex 5 speed build
« Reply #299 on: May 31, 2016, 05:58:46 AM »
With bars and controls. it would seem this forms the basic path I'll follow.

Rick C.